Comments on: The Opportunities From The Fall of Pastor Gary Lamb http://www.ronedmondson.com/2009/06/the-opportunities-from-the-fall-of-pastor-gary-lamb.html The Blog of Leader, Pastor, and Church Planter Ron Edmondson Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:01:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Randy http://www.ronedmondson.com/2009/06/the-opportunities-from-the-fall-of-pastor-gary-lamb.html#comment-3594 Randy Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:03:34 +0000 http://www.ronedmondson.com/?p=2555#comment-3594 I perhaps have a unique position, now pastoring the church in Iowa that Gary Lamb often quoted as the church from hell. If you're not aware of this, just go to YouTube and search for Gary Lamb and watch as he states that his biggest regret was not burning down our church before he left. I am indeed heart broken for his wife, children, the other woman and her family but am just wondering about a preacher of the gospel who would say to his congregation that he wanted to take a baseball bat to a lady, punch a man in the face and then burn our church down. I perhaps have a unique position, now pastoring the church
in Iowa that Gary Lamb often quoted as the church from hell.
If you’re not aware of this, just go to YouTube and search
for Gary Lamb and watch as he states that his biggest regret
was not burning down our church before he left. I am indeed
heart broken for his wife, children, the other woman and
her family but am just wondering about a preacher of the
gospel who would say to his congregation that he wanted
to take a baseball bat to a lady, punch a man in the face
and then burn our church down.

]]> By: Jesse Phillips http://www.ronedmondson.com/2009/06/the-opportunities-from-the-fall-of-pastor-gary-lamb.html#comment-2219 Jesse Phillips Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:03:34 +0000 http://www.ronedmondson.com/?p=2555#comment-2219 Ron, you're amazingly gracious. I wish I could talk and perhaps be counseled by you some day. Ron, you’re amazingly gracious. I wish I could talk and perhaps be counseled by you some day.

]]> By: Valerie http://www.ronedmondson.com/2009/06/the-opportunities-from-the-fall-of-pastor-gary-lamb.html#comment-2216 Valerie Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:14:27 +0000 http://www.ronedmondson.com/?p=2555#comment-2216 Ron, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I have read both positive and negative posts about this situation. I'm always amazed at how some Christians are so judgmental and unforgiving. One thing that I have not seen a lot of is people who are praying for the woman involved, her husband and her family. Prayer is especially necessary for those who are innocent but got splashed when the mud hit. <abbr><em>Valerie’s last blog post..<a href="http://www.yourministryhelper.com/the-pastor-the-affair-and-social-networks.html" rel="nofollow">The Pastor, The Affair and Social Networks</a></abbr></em> Ron, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I have read both positive and negative posts about this situation. I’m always amazed at how some Christians are so judgmental and unforgiving.

One thing that I have not seen a lot of is people who are praying for the woman involved, her husband and her family. Prayer is especially necessary for those who are innocent but got splashed when the mud hit.

Valerie’s last blog post..The Pastor, The Affair and Social Networks

]]> By: Ron http://www.ronedmondson.com/2009/06/the-opportunities-from-the-fall-of-pastor-gary-lamb.html#comment-2213 Ron Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:31:29 +0000 http://www.ronedmondson.com/?p=2555#comment-2213 Jesse, thank you for your comment. I am with you. I don't think that changes my approach to offer grace to Gary in this (although my only access to him is via social media), but I totally agree this should cause us to ask some serious questions about how we do church. Personally I have always built accountability and access into my life, because I know how weak and frail I could be if I allowed myself to be tempted. I have posted some on this before, but after looking for some of the posts I realize this is a topic I need to write on more. Here are a couple: http://www.ronedmondson.com/2008/12/questions-to-help-make-2009-a-better-year-my-answers.html In April I posted about inviting my staff to evaluate me. This was a method of accountability: http://www.ronedmondson.com/2009/04/follow-up-inviting-evaluation-from-your-team-part-3.html I also posted this about what to do after an affair, that may be helpful for Gary today: http://www.ronedmondson.com/2009/04/what-to-do-with-a-marriage-after-an-affair.html Jesse, I'm working on a post about the difference in doing church the way some of us are, with more responsibility and authority at the staff level. I agree with this organizational structure, because it works, but it certainly comes with some huge potential for Satan to work as well, such as in this case. Honestly, I could get away with meeting alone with female staffers or females in my church and no one would question it, because they trust me and many of them are still new in their faith and this is commonplace in the workforce. I must build this accountability into my life. You have certainly added great fuel to my current thought process. Thank you. Jesse, thank you for your comment. I am with you. I don’t think that changes my approach to offer grace to Gary in this (although my only access to him is via social media), but I totally agree this should cause us to ask some serious questions about how we do church. Personally I have always built accountability and access into my life, because I know how weak and frail I could be if I allowed myself to be tempted.

I have posted some on this before, but after looking for some of the posts I realize this is a topic I need to write on more.

Here are a couple:
http://www.ronedmondson.com/2008/12/questions-to-help-make-2009-a-better-year-my-answers.html

In April I posted about inviting my staff to evaluate me. This was a method of accountability:
http://www.ronedmondson.com/2009/04/follow-up-inviting-evaluation-from-your-team-part-3.html

I also posted this about what to do after an affair, that may be helpful for Gary today:
http://www.ronedmondson.com/2009/04/what-to-do-with-a-marriage-after-an-affair.html

Jesse, I’m working on a post about the difference in doing church the way some of us are, with more responsibility and authority at the staff level. I agree with this organizational structure, because it works, but it certainly comes with some huge potential for Satan to work as well, such as in this case. Honestly, I could get away with meeting alone with female staffers or females in my church and no one would question it, because they trust me and many of them are still new in their faith and this is commonplace in the workforce. I must build this accountability into my life.

You have certainly added great fuel to my current thought process. Thank you.

]]> By: Jesse Phillips http://www.ronedmondson.com/2009/06/the-opportunities-from-the-fall-of-pastor-gary-lamb.html#comment-2212 Jesse Phillips Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:10:35 +0000 http://www.ronedmondson.com/?p=2555#comment-2212 Thanks for this, Ron. I agree. I want to add one thing - I do think we DEFINITELY need to fiercely love, forgive, support Gary, his fam, and the other woman and etc. However, a tree is known by its fruit. I'm afraid that Gary's failure is an important indicator of whether he was worth following - What if Paul the apostle had committed adultery? The fact that he led his church so "successfully" yet was doing this privately, to me, is another indication that this office of pastor is not at all the way God intends it. I believe we are to be learning from a mentor-like pastor/elder who is worthy of being followed and imitated (as Paul said, and as Jesus did). It's WAY WAY WAY too easy to give a powerful message w/out being an actual person of character, worthy of being immitated - this is a total shame and a danger in basically every church in America b/c we do things in an anonymous setting that is more about information transfer and giving an inspirational pep-talk, then about really learning to live righteously and transforming our minds, killing our flesh daily with accountability. I think Gary's failure is an indication of a failure in our system, the way we do church - far removed from the way the Apostles and Jesus did church. My opinion. I know this is a super un-popular opinion, but I beg you, Ron and brothers to consider this, for the sake of the Church and the entire world. If I'm wrong, please correct me, it is your duty. If I'm right, let's change this, it's our duty. LOVE YOU! jesse Thanks for this, Ron. I agree.
I want to add one thing – I do think we DEFINITELY need to fiercely love, forgive, support Gary, his fam, and the other woman and etc.

However, a tree is known by its fruit. I’m afraid that Gary’s failure is an important indicator of whether he was worth following – What if Paul the apostle had committed adultery?

The fact that he led his church so “successfully” yet was doing this privately, to me, is another indication that this office of pastor is not at all the way God intends it. I believe we are to be learning from a mentor-like pastor/elder who is worthy of being followed and imitated (as Paul said, and as Jesus did).

It’s WAY WAY WAY too easy to give a powerful message w/out being an actual person of character, worthy of being immitated – this is a total shame and a danger in basically every church in America b/c we do things in an anonymous setting that is more about information transfer and giving an inspirational pep-talk, then about really learning to live righteously and transforming our minds, killing our flesh daily with accountability.

I think Gary’s failure is an indication of a failure in our system, the way we do church – far removed from the way the Apostles and Jesus did church.

My opinion. I know this is a super un-popular opinion, but I beg you, Ron and brothers to consider this, for the sake of the Church and the entire world.

If I’m wrong, please correct me, it is your duty. If I’m right, let’s change this, it’s our duty.

LOVE YOU! jesse

]]> By: Thoughts on Pastor Gary Lamb - Ron Edmondson http://www.ronedmondson.com/2009/06/the-opportunities-from-the-fall-of-pastor-gary-lamb.html#comment-2207 Thoughts on Pastor Gary Lamb - Ron Edmondson Wed, 10 Jun 2009 02:08:15 +0000 http://www.ronedmondson.com/?p=2555#comment-2207 [...] (And addendum to this post has been added since the original.  For more click HERE.) [...] [...] (And addendum to this post has been added since the original.  For more click HERE.) [...]

]]> By: Forever Married http://www.ronedmondson.com/2009/06/the-opportunities-from-the-fall-of-pastor-gary-lamb.html#comment-2204 Forever Married Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:42:31 +0000 http://www.ronedmondson.com/?p=2555#comment-2204 <strong>marriages ...</strong> [...] It gives us the opportunity to check our own hearts and marriages individually. If a married person does not seriously take a look at where their own marriage is after reading this story, I would question the sincerity of keeping their ... [...]... marriages
…

[...] It gives us the opportunity to check our own hearts and marriages individually. If a married person does not seriously take a look at where their own marriage is after reading this story, I would question the sincerity of keeping their … [...]…

]]> By: Michael Robison http://www.ronedmondson.com/2009/06/the-opportunities-from-the-fall-of-pastor-gary-lamb.html#comment-2203 Michael Robison Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:10:28 +0000 http://www.ronedmondson.com/?p=2555#comment-2203 Having inherited a church that had just experienced the very same thing that Revolution is now going through I can sympathize very well. I feel greatly for the members, the staff and especially Gary's family and Elena's Family. This is a tough, scary ordeal for any group to walk through. The key in all of this will be grace, patience and love. Without grace Revolution, Gary, Elena and everyone else will not survive. Without patience they will never see it though. Ultimately without love, no one will grow, be changed and neither will God be glorified. The love I am talking about is the entire decription of love in 1 Cor 13.....It takes ALL of that in order to heal and grow. After a LONG & HARD year at Grace Church, we finally found our peace and healing. By coincidnce, it was just this week. Sunday our former pastor, who had a major moral failure, returned to worship with us. he is not in ministry, he did not lead. But, he did baptize his daughter. For our people this show healing, grace and love. This took patience and lots of hard work. but, God has worked healing in our church, and is starting to really change our former pastor. Why? Because we leaned into God, work hard to elarn our lessons and never gave up. We let criticism fall on deaf ears, and stood firm in God's call on our church. That is how Revolution, Gary, Elena and anyone who has been in this sort of mess will survive. God is good! <abbr><em>Michael Robison’s last blog post..<a href="http://michaelrobison.tv/?p=492" rel="nofollow">The Desert Song</a></abbr></em> Having inherited a church that had just experienced the very same thing that Revolution is now going through I can sympathize very well. I feel greatly for the members, the staff and especially Gary’s family and Elena’s Family. This is a tough, scary ordeal for any group to walk through.

The key in all of this will be grace, patience and love. Without grace Revolution, Gary, Elena and everyone else will not survive. Without patience they will never see it though. Ultimately without love, no one will grow, be changed and neither will God be glorified. The love I am talking about is the entire decription of love in 1 Cor 13…..It takes ALL of that in order to heal and grow.

After a LONG & HARD year at Grace Church, we finally found our peace and healing. By coincidnce, it was just this week. Sunday our former pastor, who had a major moral failure, returned to worship with us. he is not in ministry, he did not lead. But, he did baptize his daughter. For our people this show healing, grace and love. This took patience and lots of hard work. but, God has worked healing in our church, and is starting to really change our former pastor. Why? Because we leaned into God, work hard to elarn our lessons and never gave up. We let criticism fall on deaf ears, and stood firm in God’s call on our church. That is how Revolution, Gary, Elena and anyone who has been in this sort of mess will survive. God is good!

Michael Robison’s last blog post..The Desert Song

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